On Harlan
Apparently, Harlan Ellison did a Bad Thing at Worldcon and fandom has taken him to task for it, as is proper. Those who want the details can find them in pnh's livejournal. He has apologized. Some don't feel the apology sincere, some do.

Okay, whatever.

There are a lot of things one might say about Harlan--about his writing (he seems to do his best storytelling in his essays, but at his worst he's good), or about his attitude, or the controversies around him. And, of course, there aren't that many people who have had as strong an effect on our field. I consider it a positive effect; others might disagree. And, yes, it is true that to some degree, in some ways, he has become a parody of himself.

But there is one point I would like to make. It is not only rare today, but it is even considered gauche to believe in something--anything--so much that one is willing to risk one's career, reputation, and livelihood because the principle is that important. Harlan is one of the very few who has shown and continues to show a willingness to do that.

Some of the issues he has demonstrated a willingness to take a strong position on are ones I don't think terribly important. On others, I come down on the opposite side.

But fuck all that.

When we think about Harlan, let us remember that most of what has been accomplished that was worthwhile in this sad world was accomplished by people who had principles, believed in them, and held to them in spite of everything, and that this is bloody damned rare these days.

I admire the hell out of Harlan Ellison, on many different levels.

(Post a new comment)

mrissa 2006-08-30 05:04 pm UTC (link)

This is going to sound like a rhetorical question, but it isn't meant as one: Do you really think Ellison has been risking his career, reputation, or livelihood in the last, er -- oh, let's call it approximately my lifetime? No matter what he does or says, a fairly large group in his field of choice says, "Oh, that's just Harlan, and he's one of the greats of the field, and he's always been like that." Where does the risk come in? (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - webgodd_s, 2006-09-05 04:02 pm UTC

arielstarshadow 2006-08-30 05:07 pm UTC (link)

I find it hard to admire anyone who seems to take pleasure in tearing other people down and/or embarassing them and/or making rude remarks for the sole purpose of making other people feel inferior. I don't know whether you've read the apology or not, but there are some statements made in there that fit into what I just said above. I suspect it was not a sincere apology - and if it was? Then I pity the man even more, for his sheer and utter idiocy. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - rickthefightguy, 2006-08-30 05:23 pm UTC

(no subject) - gramina, 2006-08-30 05:40 pm UTC

(no subject) - rickthefightguy, 2006-08-30 06:02 pm UTC

(no subject) - arielstarshadow, 2006-08-30 06:08 pm UTC

(no subject) - rickthefightguy, 2006-08-30 06:16 pm UTC

(no subject) - gramina, 2006-08-30 07:14 pm UTC

(no subject) - redhawknflight, 2006-09-01 04:08 am UTC

(no subject) - collie13, 2006-09-03 06:28 pm UTC

mia_mcdavid 2006-08-30 05:21 pm UTC (link)

I remember a Worldcon--it was out West somewhere--Arizona?; many years ago. There was a political issue about the con being where it was. IIRC, the state it was in had not ratified the Equal Rights Amendment. In any case, Harlan wanted to go to Worldcon because, duh!, Worldcon, but he had scruples about supporting the economy of that state. He stayed in a tent. Nobody would have cared if he had stayed in a hotel. Maybe it mattered more that he stayed in the tent because he was a celebrity. Maybe he wouldn't have done it if he couldn't get publicity for it. It doesn't matter. He found a way in difficult circumstances to live by his principles and I've never forgotten that. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - agrumer, 2006-08-30 05:30 pm UTC

	mnemex 2006-08-30 05:26 pm UTC (link)
	Hmm. Ellen Datlow has posted a different perspective on the Hugos schtick than Patrick's (on Harlan's website). (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - agrumer, 2006-08-30 05:33 pm UTC

(no subject) - ebenbrooks, 2006-08-30 06:19 pm UTC

(no subject) - arielstarshadow, 2006-08-30 07:02 pm UTC

	droolfangrrl 2006-08-30 05:31 pm UTC (link)
	Huh. Lucky man, I'd have decked him. (Reply to this)

	davidgoldfarb 2006-08-30 05:32 pm UTC (link)
	There's a lot to admire about Harlan Ellison. There's a lot not to admire. I find slightly more to admire than not, although I understand people who feel differently. And this latest incident moves me somewhat in the other direction. (Reply to this)

goldenstag 2006-08-30 05:45 pm UTC (link)

I admire his writing, and while I am not all that aware of things he's stood up for, one can certainly admire that. However, he's an adult -- and he should be more responsible ... sure, giving in to childish behavior once in awhile can be excused. ONCE IN AWILE. Treating people like dirt just because you can, cannot be excused, and face it, the man has been doing that for as long as I've been aware of his work (the 70s). (Reply to this)

foomf 2006-08-30 05:51 pm UTC (link)

Was that act scripted or pre-planned? Rehearsed even? As a scripted bit, it's pathetic that it would be necessary to bring up the fact that it WAS scripted, that it wasn't Harlan deliberately molesting (but also that it hadn't been rehearsed and it wasn't expected) and that It Wasn't Harrassment. Pathetic that we should have sufficient of a problem socially that it was necessary to recognize and correct it, and pathetic that in correcting it, we've gone to the point where there is no longer humor in 'innocence misplaced' ... the Harlan as a Baby being an example thereof. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - scendan, 2006-08-30 06:41 pm UTC

(no subject) - foomf, 2006-08-30 06:49 pm UTC

(no subject) - scendan, 2006-08-30 06:54 pm UTC

(no subject) - thatguychuck, 2006-08-30 09:25 pm UTC

(no subject) - foomf, 2006-08-30 10:14 pm UTC

(no subject) - pecunium, 2006-08-30 08:36 pm UTC

	lightgetsin 2006-08-30 06:30 pm UTC (link)
	I admire the hell out of Harlan Ellison, on many different levels. I used to. I don't anymore. Some things are just so chillingly, smugly offensive. (Reply to this)

scendan 2006-08-30 06:43 pm UTC (link)

It is not only rare today, but it is even considered gauche to believe in something--anything--so much that one is willing to risk one's career, reputation, and livelihood because the principle is that important. Harlan is one of the very few who has shown and continues to show a willingness to do that. In this case, apparently, Harlan believed in the principle of abusive breast-grabbing of Guests of Honor in front of large audiences of people. Go, Harlan! Seriously, I was a fan of his writing at one point. But no matter what I may think of his writing, this sort of behavior is not excusable. Full stop. (Reply to this)

	hlglne 2006-08-30 07:31 pm UTC (link)
	The only one whose business this might be now is Ms. Willis. And I dig Harlan Ellison, too. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - pecunium, 2006-08-30 08:39 pm UTC

(no subject) - hlglne, 2006-08-31 02:32 am UTC

(no subject) - redhawknflight, 2006-09-01 04:18 am UTC

	kijjohnson 2006-08-30 07:40 pm UTC (link)
	You don't get a free pass to be an asshole because you believe in something. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - thatguychuck, 2006-08-30 09:26 pm UTC

rathgar 2006-08-30 08:07 pm UTC (link)

I really enjoyed the movie "A Boy and his Dog," and the Star Trek episode "City on the Edge of Forever." As I recall though Harlan's prose style didn't really grab me when I read his work as a kid. I should try some of his stuff again now that I am a, hmm, somewhat older and more experienced kid. As to the other business, well, I've formed the impression that many people who possess a particular genius are a bit messed up in one way or another. It is most obvious in the arts, and somewhat so in the sciences. It ranges from idiosyncracy to insanity. Is it a vital component of the psyche which allows such people to produce the output they can? I admit to curiosity on the subject, but when it comes right down to it, I find it mostly irrelevant. On the scale of these things Harlan's behavior is mild. I would guess that 100 years from now it'll be a footnote that only scholars are aware of, as opposed to say Van Gogh's behavior which is well known even among people who have no clue what one of his paintings looks like. I personally tend to think the incident is being blown way out of proportion, but even if I didn't and thought the man utterly vile, it wouldn't detract from the value of his works. (Reply to this)

pnh 2006-08-30 08:34 pm UTC (link)

"When we think about Harlan, let us remember that most of what has been accomplished that was worthwhile in this sad world was accomplished by people who had principles, believed in them, and held to them in spite of everything, and that this is bloody damned rare these days." Surely at least some of the people criticizing Harlan Ellison's behavior at the Hugo ceremony are also doing so because they have principles and believe in them. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - skzbrust, 2006-08-30 08:46 pm UTC

(no subject) - pnh, 2006-08-30 08:56 pm UTC

(no subject) - rian, 2006-08-30 10:17 pm UTC

(no subject) - scendan, 2006-08-30 09:25 pm UTC

pecunium 2006-08-30 08:46 pm UTC (link)

"When we think about Harlan, let us remember that most of what has been accomplished that was worthwhile in this sad world was accomplished by people who had principles, believed in them, and held to them in spite of everything, and that this is bloody damned rare these days." Yes. But not all that has been accomplished by those people is noble, good nor admirable. Mere drive, passion and belief don't make the results of those beliefs acceptable. I'm not saying Harlan hasn't done good. I'm not even saying his beliefs are wrong (he has taken principled stands on a lot of things I agree with, from women's rights, to artistic integrity), but I tend to think actions, and results are at least as important as driving causes. So I won't wash my hands of him, just because of this, but I won't absolve him of it, just 'cause. All in all, I'd say it's probably safer for Harlan to stay at home, or, when out in public, try to avoid being clever, because I've seen too many occaisions when he's made far more people willing to write him off, than he has made a point which resonated with the majority; when he does it in public, instead of in print. TK (Reply to this)

coffeeem 2006-08-31 12:08 am UTC (link)

It seems odd that, in reviewing Harlan's dumb and offensive move at WorldCon, many folks seem to have moved quickly from, "Harlan did a bad thing" to "Harlan is a bad person." Your post is a good reminder that Harlan, like the rest of us, isn't all one thing all the way through. I think it's a very sincere apology. But I think some of the people complaining about it want "apology" to mean "cure," and won't settle for anything less than a guarantee that Harlan will Never Do Anything Bad Again. The only guarantee of that, in Harlan's case or anyone else's, is death. There may be offenses for which the grave is the only acceptable apology. But I don't think this was one of them. (That said, Connie Willis is entirely within her rights to refuse to acknowledge Harlan's existence for the rest of recorded time.) (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - mrkleve, 2006-08-31 12:22 am UTC

(no subject) - skzbrust, 2006-08-31 12:50 am UTC

(no subject) - coffeeem, 2006-08-31 01:26 am UTC

(no subject) - hlglne, 2006-08-31 02:31 am UTC

Aqua vitae - libertango, 2006-08-31 02:36 am UTC

(no subject) - pnh, 2006-08-31 04:14 pm UTC

I am not sure if I am arguing with you or agreeing with you very strenuously... commodorified 2006-08-31 09:05 am UTC (link)

I admire Harlan Ellison quite a lot, really. Enough that a) it causes me real pain to have to say, and to know that other people feel they have to say 'oh, and, um... stay clear of Harlan. Especially if he's been drinking. He gets a bit... ' to young women, and b) I strongly suspect that that is not in line with his principles, and not what he would wish. But someone's told ME that about Harlan Ellison. More than one someone. And that is not right. And maybe he should have figured it out before or maybe someone should have told him long ago, but here we are. If he's half the man that you say he is, I think that he has a RIGHT to get clear on the effect this has had on women in fandom and have a chance to make some amends. No, he's not an utterly bad, evil, hopeless person. He's a man with many fine qualities, who has made it clear that he doesn't have a problem with offering sexual indignities to women, and now he's done it to a much admired and respected woman, in public, for a laugh, while she is being honoured. I am not seeing a whole lot of women who have always until now adored him and who have now suddenly turned on him with the fury of a thousand blazing suns. I am seeing a lot of women who have felt uncomfortable, or angry, or frustrated, for a long time with this behaviour, only now it's more than they're willing to adapt to or work around or ignore. He just flipped off the female half of the community pretty hard, and a lot of us are feeling pretty damned threatened and angry and unsafe. And the fact that he has always presented himself as pro-feminist makes it worse, not better, when it comes to what it says about the general atmosphere at cons. If HE could do that... Is there some scapegoating here? Maybe. Or maybe he just gets to be the poster-boy for a problem that's been going on for far too long and has suddenly come to a head. Which, well, is in line with his principles too, I suppose. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I am not sure if I am arguing with you or agreeing with you very strenuously... - pnh, 2006-08-31 04:09 pm UTC

Re: I am not sure if I am arguing with you or agreeing with you very strenuously... - commodorified, 2006-08-31 05:41 pm UTC

anon_user2715 2006-08-31 09:50 am UTC (link)

When we think about Harlan, let us remember that most of what has been accomplished that was worthwhile in this sad world was accomplished by people who had principles, believed in them, and held to them in spite of everything, and that this is bloody damned rare these days. A lot of people make statements like this as though merely having strong opinions is an unqualified virtue. Most criminals never deviate from their principle that they deserve whatever they want. The WTC attacks were motivated by principle, as is all religious terrorism. In fact, countless instances of child abuse are dismissed daily in the US because the parents or guardians have strong religious convictions which means anything they do must be well-intentioned. Let me stress I'm not equating Mr. Ellison with any sort of criminal, I'm rather criticizing the widespread notion that simply having strong beliefs is by definition a good thing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - skzbrust, 2006-08-31 09:43 pm UTC

kinfae 2006-08-31 11:25 am UTC (link)

Julia Vinograd, speaking of Ginsberg in her poem of the same name, wrote something that I immediately thought of when this whole incident began. "No blame. Anyone who wrote Howl and Kaddish earned the right to make any possible mistake for the rest of his life." This is how I think of Harlan Ellison. He's a great man, and yes, he has shown himself willing to risk for very many things. Someone said above that he hasn't done it in her lifetime: I think that's a foolish argument, as though anything we personally did not witness is not real. Harlan is a great man who may or may not have made a mistake. I'm a woman, and I don't find the need to shout his evil to the rooftops. It was public, it was brief: it may have been in poor taste, but it does /not/ deserve this much condemnation. I think fandom needs to step back and take a few breaths. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - pnh, 2006-08-31 04:13 pm UTC

(no subject) - tmixtli, 2006-08-31 06:29 pm UTC

(no subject) - skzbrust, 2006-08-31 09:46 pm UTC

(no subject) - redhawknflight, 2006-09-01 04:06 am UTC

(no subject) - sunlessnick, 2006-10-16 10:52 pm UTC

(no subject) - kinfae, 2006-10-17 01:45 am UTC

Idealogues are NOT to be admired. venotar 2006-08-31 07:11 pm UTC (link)

When we think about Harlan, let us remember that most of what has been accomplished that was worthwhile in this sad world was accomplished by people who had principles, believed in them, and held to them in spite of everything, and that this is bloody damned rare these days. Mr Brust, Integrity is rare and admirable. A willingness to stand the line when the metal truly hits the meat is equally valuable and someone who stands up for what they believe in is to be admired. Given that, did you really mean to laud someone for holding to their principles "in spite of everything"? Someone who backs their principles with real, meaningful action deserves respect. I doubt they'd ever be at any real risk of being labeled crude or graceless. Someone who holds to their principles in the face of everything (including strong evidence that their principles are flawed, selfish, hurtful, or otherwise destructive) is in serious risk of becoming an idealogue. It is not enough to be courageous in the defense of your principles. I believe those principles must be constantly reevaluated and scrutinized against a set of well considered measures. Harlan Ellison may live a scrutinized life, but my reading inspires doubt and leads me to fear that he's become a rigid idealogue. I admire his skill, his irreverance, and his fearlessness. I don't believe that admiration precludes my calling him to task on behaviour that damages the community and leaves any of its members feeling excluded. Accomplishments past and present don't earn anyone exclusion from a communities norms, nor does social pressure to respect a community's members need to detract from recognition for previous excellence. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Idealogues are NOT to be admired. - pnh, 2006-09-01 12:03 am UTC

coffeeem 2006-08-31 07:14 pm UTC (link)

For some reason, LJ isn't letting me reply to pnh's reply to kinfae, above, so I'm going to try to make it post it here. "What a lot of people in this thread, Steve Brust and Emma Bull included, don't seem to grasp is that this isn't primarily a chapter in the Epic of Harlan Ellison. "It's a chapter in the generational development of fandom. This incident is where a whole bunch of people, mostly younger than 40, are all saying 'we don't want to watch SF personalities behave like this in public any more, and we don't intend to further indulge it...'" Not only do I grasp that, I said pretty much that on puppetmaker40's LJ a couple days ago. My comment was meant to say (very sorry for lack of clarity) that I'd been reading quite a few comments on the event that not only hated the sin, but the sinner on the basis of it (and not on the basis of past Ellison mayhem), and that suggested that complete permanent rejection of the man and his works was the only correct response to Ellison's wrongdoing on stage at WorldCon. I was objecting to what seemed like a rush to up the stakes of what was already a serious matter for the community at large. (Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - flaviarassen, 2006-09-26 08:20 am UTC

2006 - Year of the Grope rathgar 2006-09-01 07:24 pm UTC (link)

I mentioned this over lunch to someone today and they pointed out something I had missed (I know, so cliche to be out of touch with popular culture). Apparently at the Golden Globe awards Isaac Mizrahi groped both Scarlett Johansson and Teri Hatcher. Supposedly public reaction went something like "OMG he groped her! Oh wait, he's gay! Phew, it's OK then, that was close." Given my predilection for finding humor in life, even in situations where it is perhaps inappropriate, my disdain for hollywood award ceremonies, and my fondness for the particular bit of female anatomy in question my head is, as you might imagine, about to explode. Did Albert R. Broccoli come up with the name for the awards? The "Golden Globes" is the most amusingly apropos name I've heard since "Truly Scrumptious." Did Harlan see the ceremony? I wonder what he thought of it. Mizrahi has not only not apologized, he says he intends to continue being outrageous when he does his red carpet interviews to make them more interesting. If you're looking for a place to take a stand against public groping, there you go. And finally... Q: Why did Harlan Ellison grope Connie Willis at worldcon? A: The job groping Scarlett Johansson was already taken. (Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: 2006 - Year of the Grope - tammy212, 2006-09-03 04:47 am UTC

Re: 2006 - Year of the Grope - holzman, 2006-09-08 01:44 pm UTC

Re: 2006 - Year of the Grope - holzman, 2006-09-08 01:47 pm UTC

I don't care ryumaou 2006-09-01 10:21 pm UTC (link)

You know what? I don't care. I don't know either of people involved. I don't know or care about either of the awards involved. I don't know or care about the backstage, incestuous, SF publishing politics involved in the incident. I've read Harlan and liked his work, but that's rather irrelevant to the whole thing, isn't it? I'm just a sci-fi & fantasy fiction fan and really don't give a damn about the rest of the crap that everyone is talking about incessantly everywhere on the Internet in what used to be forums on writing. And, yes, I will allow that it might make me a black-hearted, insensitive, mouth-breathing, apolitical, socially-unaware neanderthal to not care about this incident that happened somewhere I wasn't between two people I don't know. I'm okay with that. I work in IT support, so, I've been called worse. But, honestly, the bottom line is that I'm tired of hearing about it and how I'm supposed to be so outraged. And, of course, I JUST DON"T CARE! (Reply to this)

cbubacz 2006-09-02 12:13 am UTC (link)

Its relatively hard not to admire Harlan Ellison for his literary works and sometimes for his willingness to say and do what he feels. But that wasn't an apology he wrote. He applauded the public's negative reaction to his deed and claimed he SHOULD have been chided for it...but he never claims it was a mistake or that he was sorry. That's maybe a sign of an ego a bit too large to bear. His physical act of social satire demeaned another human being, and I would rather have seen him get his dick knocked in the dirt than read his trite, self-righteous response. Oh well. (Reply to this)

jesurgislac 2006-09-03 12:27 am UTC (link)

Your forgiving attitude towards Harlan Ellison for grabbing Connie Willis's boob on stage at the Hugo Awards should be borne in mind by everyone who ever shares a public space with you in future: we'll see how forgiving you are when it's your dick up for grabs. Seriously, I like you as a writer, but this is a shmucky, shmucky post. It's adorable that you think other people being physically harassed in public isn't such a big deal that you're happy to forgive the man who does it to others. How would you feel about Harlan Ellison right now if you'd been compereing at the Hugos and he'd decided that front stage was the right place to make a grab for your dick? How would you feel about this if you knew that Ellison has a habit of behaving "outrageously" on those lines, and that you weren't even the only man Ellison grabbed at that weekend, just the best-known and the man who was grabbed in public? Would you feel that, as Ellison is a man of principles, you'd still admire him and others should still admire him, because physically humiliating you at the Hugos and other men elsewhere isn't such a very big deal in a lifetime like Ellison's? (Connie Willis wasn't the only woman Ellison physically harassed at LACon: just the one he physically harassed most publicly - and the only one who's even received an acknowledgement that what he did was wrong.) (Reply to this)

---

• Mini Sitemap:

• Post to Journal
• Downloads

• LJ Gift Shop
• Safety Tips

• Support & FAQs
• Be a Support Volunteer

• Feedback & Contact Us
• Report Abuse

• Site News
• More... (Full Sitemap)